Digital Products as Marketing Tools

Doug Berger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the latest installment of Brand of Brothers. I'm Doug.

Johnny Diggz: And I'm Johnny. Today we're talking about digital products as marketing tools.

Doug Berger: All right, let's get to it.

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Johnny Diggz: And we're back. So Doug, uh, we've been talking a lot about the HBS lately. Yeah. I think it's time to- We, we need to- Yeah ... swiggity switch it up because, um, you know, while I love talking about ethics of AI- It's my favorite ... it, it um, you know, sometimes it's g- good to, good to just, you know, talk about something else for a little bit.

Yeah. We can come back to it. We definitely have more parts of the HBS we need to come back to. Oh. Sure. I think we'll be coming back to that for a while. And, and, and our audience- I was gonna s- try to figure out how to make that sing- singular, but- Singular ... realized that, well, anyhow. Our listener- Our listener

Doug Berger: uh, is, is waiting with [00:01:00] bated breath. I, I've confirmed we have two listeners now. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, we got a second one. Um- All right ... yeah, my fr- hi, Jenny. Yeah. And, and hi, Calvin. Um, if you'd- So what- ... like us to shout you out too, um, just let us know in the comments. We'd love to have three listeners. So what did you have in mind for today?

Johnny Diggz: So we've been talking, uh, internally a lot about this concept of digital products as sort of a marketing tool. Yeah. And we're seeing more and more clients that, that really seem to, when we, when we tell them about this, this idea, they, um, they really get excited about it. So I was hoping that we could sort of distill this down and you could explain what we mean by a digital product.

Doug Berger: Oh, wow. So when it comes to a digital product, it, it's quite vast. Um, the, the main reason that when we talk about digital products we use that term is because if we talk about it as an [00:02:00] app, people think of it as probably something that they can access from the Apple App Store or from Google Play. And if we talk about it as a website, well, then they just think about it as something that they can access on their desktop or their laptop, or maybe even their tablet, right?

Um, they don't really think about it as a mobile experience when you put it in that context. So what we're really doing is kind of bridging the two, and that's creating these web apps. Um, and, and so these, these apps have a variety of applications. And so, uh, it, it's basically creating a deeper, richer user experience.

Johnny Diggz: H- explain to me why this is different than a website. So a website is typically where you go to experience a digital brochure, for example, or maybe e-commerce. Um, this digital product has more depth to it. It has greater [00:03:00] feature sets. It, again, it's kind of where a, an app, like a native app, and a website come together.

So, uh- Let's kind of... I, I just, I, uh, my brain already wants to go into, like, you know, some practical applications. Sure. So give us- Let's, let's talk about some. Yeah, let's, let's go in because I think that'll be helpful in me understanding how this differentiates from, you know, what you, what you c- consider a, just a website, um, versus what this, this idea is.

Doug Berger: So- And we, and, and- Yeah ... we've been calling them hubs, right? So i- in, in many instances, yeah. Like a digital hub. We've been calling them a digital hub, exactly. And, and it's because it's a place where so many, uh, pieces come together, right? All of the spokes come into this center axle. And so when it comes to [00:04:00] these digital hubs, uh, it can be as simple, and not to oversimplify it, but for the sake of conversation, it can be as simple as a, a niche community having a place where they can all interconnect.

And so a great example is this partnership hub that we're creating for a very specific industry in a very specific geography, and they're looking for effectively three different categories of users. And those are, uh, people that create projects or are project managers in their respective industry. Um, and then you've got your contractors and your subcontractors.

And so all three of them together can actually turn a, a building into reality, right? Let's say that that's, that's where we're going with this. And so that's a community building [00:05:00] component. Um, and so you can access it through the web, or you can access it from a mobile device. And so much like when we develop websites where we do mobile first, when we're developing these digital products, we do web app first.

Johnny Diggz: So why does this, this, in this particular use case, what, what's the advantage to the, the, the client, our client that- Yeah ... that, like, so they- You're probably wondering, like, where's the revenue model? Where, yeah, show me the money. So, so there, there's no money in this, except that it's about community building.

Doug Berger: And when you build community, when you give to your community- Almost invariably, your community gives back. Is this i- in, in, in this particular use case, is this client facing? Is it, is, is this their customers, or is this outside of their target, their target customers? You know what? It's all of [00:06:00] it, actually.

Johnny Diggz: It is? Okay. Yeah. So- So d- like I'm saying, does, does, does, uh, their customer access the same hub as a potential subcontractor? Oh, it, it, it's even deeper than that. So the, these individuals that could be their customers, they can post jobs- Mm ... and there's no revenue model here, right? They're not asking for any money.

Doug Berger: There's no referral fee. There's nothing. This is all about building community. The benefit is- Massive beyond building this, this community. It also makes it so our client has a repository of contacts that they can go to, and they know who are actively involved and who can be actively engaged. Um, so they're like m- like micro social sites.

A, a little bit, to an extent, sure. But here's the deal. When it... So this one that I'm describing is kind of a LinkedIn meets, [00:07:00] um, uh, like, uh, not GoodHire, but like Indeed. Okay. Right? Right. Um, except Indeed costs a significant amount of money to post a job on, um, especially when you want a certain number of, of respondents.

But this puts you in your community directly, right? So it's people in your area, in your region, that are providing the specific types of services that you're looking for and, or the other way around, where it's people providing jobs for the particular types of services that you provide. Um, yeah. But, oh, I, I, really quickly, if I can go back to the social component.

One of the issues with social media by default is that there's an algorithm driving content to you based on your preferences. Sure. And it- This is not algorithmically- Th- this is- ... driven ... there's no algorithmically driven component. In fact, all of the content is presented [00:08:00] chronologically- Right ... in a logical format, right?

It's made where anybody can use it. It's not confusing. It's not overly convoluted or deep. So yeah. I'm just trying to think. Like, the ancestors of this is like, you know, a message board- Mm-hmm ... or, or a, a even like a Zendesk type interface. Like, you, you can kind of combine components- Well- ... a scheduling, you know.

I mean, you could conceivably do kind of something like this with something like SharePoint as well. Right. Um, but it, it's not- Or HubSpot or- Yeah. It, these all can kind of can create these types of digital experiences. Or pieces of it, yeah. Um, what we're talking about is a little bit more sophisticated.

It has the ability- And customized, right? It, it... Oh, highly customized, branded, the whole deal. Right. Um, it- So this truly looks like it's, it's n- native to the client. It does. Yeah, yeah. And it also feels native to the device. Right. So if you're on your laptop, you get a, a, [00:09:00] a natural feeling web-based experience, and if you're on your mobile device, you get a natural app-like interface.

Johnny Diggz: So, it, and that, that's one of the things that like when using third-party tools um, there's always that danger of that you're, that, that third-party branding comes through you know, if you're using, ah, like a free version of, of- Oh, it gets worse than that. What if they make an update? Right. And your stuff is broken.

Right. Right? So when you have this type of, of custom created digital product it mitigates all of these issues as well as security concerns, um, because it gives you the active ability to make sure that these patches are maintained You know, through the, it makes, it, mm, it makes a sense to, through this sort of community building.

It's also, [00:10:00] um, helping with, you know, authenticity, uh, transparency. Mm-hmm. You know, when, when your clients and your, the people part, that are part of this community see other people participating in the community, it builds all of that, you know- Community ... sort of community. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's, uh, it's this sort of, it, there's a separate, um, like, goodwill value that's hard to put a price on- Yeah

when you, when you can start building, uh, a, a community of, of l- people who are interested in this particular product or area or whatever, whatever topic th- this is based around. Yeah. It, and, you know, the, the intended or unintended co- consequence could become that, uh, you know, your brand becomes a bit of a lifestyle brand because you're creating some affinity.

Doug Berger: And speaking of a lifestyle brand, um, you know, one of the digital products that we're working on is a digital hub for a lifestyle brand that [00:11:00] goes way beyond d- uh, creating community. So it begins with creating community, but it's made about the idea of, of self-expression. And so when it comes to self-expression and actualization, um, it, the idea of doing something with, uh, the idea of creating a sense of purpose, that comes about.

And so how does that happen? And that can manifest itself through travel, through fashion, that, uh, through diet, um, the list goes on. Vans, yeah. Uh, it, and, and also information that you consume. Yeah. And so the big idea here is for this particular product, just to kinda put it out there so, um, the understanding is clear what a digital product can be.

It can be social, it can be community, it can also be commerce, and an amalgamation of all of those. And that's where this comes into play, where this digital product will [00:12:00] quietly make money through passive referral fees. So it'll look like you're booking the trip through this brand, but it's supported by a much larger third party.

Johnny Diggz: So it's talking via, you know, APIs on the back end. Absolutely, yeah. And, and you, and the, the digital hub sort of handles all the, that connectivity on the back end, so it's transparent to... I mean, it's, it's- So- ... not transparent. It's, it's- Yeah. So, so what we actually are doing is we're having these API handoffs where whenever you're transferring your personal data, it's not directly through d- the digital hub.

Doug Berger: It's directly through the payment processor. Mm. Right? So when it looks like you're- on the product, but you're using a backend processor. And that's very common. You'll see, uh, Stripe, for example, is a, a payment gateway, but you're not necessarily seeing that you're using Stripe when you're making a payment.

Um, a- and there are [00:13:00] numerous platforms like this, authorize.net. When you're buying something from... Or, or even like shopify.com, um, when you're using these platforms, uh, it basically hides the, the processor behind it through these APIs. The, the, um... Talk to me a- about, like, some of these other types of use cases that you're seeing.

Johnny Diggz: Um, you, you, you talked about the, uh, the, the, the Partnership Hub- Mm-hmm ... and then a lifestyle brand. What other kinds of hubs? Well, obviously social media. Uh, so, a- and, and so the, the question you asked was, well, what differentiates a digital product from a social media? And- Yeah ... you know, sometimes social media is that- Is, is-

Doug Berger: that digital product. Sure. And so, uh, one concept that we're working on, uh, actively is, um, for, uh, the, the entertainment sector. Mm-hmm. I, I'm trying not to, to name- Give too much away? [00:14:00] Yeah, I don't wanna name drop. I don't wanna make anybody- I, I certainly don't wanna make our clients go, "Were you talking about me?"

Well, obviously we are. But, uh, uh, we, we also don't wanna give anything away that they don't want us to give away. Sure. So they are in the entertainment sector. Sure. The, the, uh, attractions and entertainment sector. I don't know. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, a- What we are creating for them is, again, a niche-type hub.

We're not employing the algorithmic components of saying, "Oh, you might like this person. You should meet this person." Mm. There are those aspects if you want it- Right ... but this isn't a dating site, right? Right. This is about connecting with people who share your same passions- Right ... for this particular niche around the world.

And so, i- the, the cool thing is that it has these added features like food reviews. Um, it [00:15:00] has reviews about other components, uh, related to their- ... their industry. Um- Yeah ... and, uh, it also does weather reporting, meetups. Uh, so it has all of these extra pieces that a typical social media platform doesn't necessarily provide on a simplified, niche-driven level.

Johnny Diggz: Now, how do you go from, uh, you know, a, being, you know, years and years, 20-plus years of, of, of a marketing agency to start building these types of custom tools for clients? Like, what, uh, what, what, w- when did that transition begin? We've always built custom tools for clients, right? That's the whole point of being a branding and marketing agency.

Doug Berger: It's just those tools have evolved over time. So when I first started, back in the 1900s- Back in my day. We, we would put this stuff called ink on paper. Um, a- and so, you know, we used to [00:16:00] regularly hand out business cards, right? Sure. Um, and, and now, I c- I honestly, the last time I handed out a business card was on a flight home, and I just happened to have one with me.

I, before that, it might have been more than a year since I had handed out a business card. That obviously is old tech. Mm-hmm. Then we went into newer technologies in the '90s with the advent of the web. And the web has simply evolved, much like all of the other media platforms that we work with, because it's not just about these digital products.

We also do broadcast. We also do print, like I was mentioning. We do environment. We do immersive. Um, so it's all over the place. So whether it's a digital product in this format or a digital product that really, like UX... Uh, not UX, CX, um, where we're talking about, uh, VR and, and, [00:17:00] um, and AR. Mm-hmm. Those types of things are also technically digital products, but we put those more in immersive experiences, right?

And so how did we go over 20 years, uh, to get to where we are today? Um, it's, it's where you find the right tools, the right goals, the right objectives that align with what match your clients' and their customers' needs. Mm-hmm. Um, that's where we, we head to with these digital products today. I th- I think that, um, you know, from, from my perspective, I w- you know, w- we see We spend a lot of time identifying, you know, helping our, our clients identify who their target audience is, and how to reach those target audience, and whether we do that with, you know, email campaigns, or s- digital signage, or billboards, or direct mail.

Johnny Diggz: You know, there's- Yeah ... we, we have all the tools in our quiver to do [00:18:00] marketing. And we realize, you know, every client needs, okay, well, what do you do when you capture the attention of a potential client? They gotta ... There's, there's a call to action, and usually, you know, historically, that is, go to our website, fill out a form, do something, give us a call, whatever, whatever, whatever that call to action is.

And then, um, from there they need some kind of a flow. Yeah. Right? So isn't, isn't that kind of where this started? It, you know, it, it is. And, you know, it, it's kind of funny because what it, the, the general thing that happens is people think of it linearly, where someone comes in, and someone goes out, right?

Doug Berger: It's the beginning, and there are a couple of steps along the way, and then boom, done. What these digital products do is it turns that, that continuum into a cycle. And, um, you know, we, we, we also have [00:19:00] been inspired to create our own digital product based on the concept of a flow. And so, uh, a- and it, and digital products aren't necessarily for the people you're trying to attract.

Sometimes it's for the people that are already within your circle. Sure. But it, it is a, a nice way to sort of, um, bring them into your virtual- store. I mean, it's- It's all of it, yeah ... you know, it's not necessarily a store, but it's, it's sort of- It's your brand. It's ... Yeah. Yeah. It's your brand, uh, it's your, it's your, it- it's like your brand's space.

Yeah, it's an extension of the brand experience. Yeah. Fully. Yeah. Yeah. And it's ... It, it definitely, um ... And, and, and you have a lot of control over how that, how that in- experience is. You can, you can, um, you can as- assign, uh, associates, customer service, real people to participate. You know- 100%, yeah ... however you want [00:20:00] to, however you want to curate that space is, uh, is up to you.

Johnny Diggz: You can make it all self-managed by the community itself, or you could be more hands-on. I mean, it's ... It, it really opens up a lot of possibilities. And once you have that sort of captured audience, um, it's up to you what you do with it. Yeah. And it- it's all about making sure they have a reason to keep coming back.

So if, if you were starting from scratch, how ... Like, you've got ... You know, you're a b- you're a, uh, a small business, you've got a website. You're like, "Oh my gosh. Maybe I do need a digital hub." What do you, what do you do? You know, it, it's, it's funny because it ... This is a philosophical question. Because what you do is you take the moment to ascertain what your goals and objectives are, and then figure out, especially if you're the founder or owner of the company, how to get out of your own [00:21:00] way.

Doug Berger: And so if you can figure out what those are, the goals and objectives, and how to make it where you're not having to do all of the work all of the time, um ... I, I guess the answer to your question is that, uh, you, you, you need a messaging brandscape. You need a ... It all comes down- It all comes- It all comes back to- It is

messaging brandscapes, John. It is. Right. Right. Um, well it always does. Uh, but it's, it's always a great place to start because it's, it's really your, your digital, your, your blueprint of what, what you want and what your company is and what you do and what you stand for and who your cust- You know, all those things.

Johnny Diggz: Yeah. Um, so it's ob- uh, obviously a great place to start. But I'm ... I, like, from ... Like, you mentioned g- getting, uh, like- T- talk to me more about that idea of, of, uh, uh, an owner or founder, like, getting out of their own way. Oh. [00:22:00] I mean, I mean- I, I know you've got a lot of- Me? ... experience. Yeah. Yeah. I have a lot of experience of getting- Yeah

Doug Berger: in my own way. Well, I think, I think a lot of people can relate to that because they realize that they are, you know, for better or worse, the, the, the sort of funnel, the, the, the linchpin that keeps things going, and when they need to take a break or go on vacation or s- you know, for whatever reason- Yeah

Johnny Diggz: the business can s- come to a grinding halt. It can. No, that's true. And they realize, they realize that even if you have other employees, that there's, there's some, some little point that, that just breaks down and everything starts to fall apart. So how do you, how do you identify what, what those pieces are, and how can a digital hub help?

Doug Berger: So if you were to ask my wife, I- ... definitely talk a little bit too much about this. Um, so just to kind of make this all come full circle, [00:23:00] um, we had, we have a client that, they're not a business coach per se. They are a business optimization company, and- Their primary message that we developed opened my eyes.

And I was like, "Holy cow, th- that's me." I, I was seeing myself in the mirror in this messaging as going, "Okay, it- it's time to do some introspection." So they, this, this client works with digital hubs. Then there was another client of ours that we were developing a product for, and I had this realization that, wait, if we can develop a product for them, maybe we can solve our own problems.

So the issues [00:24:00] when it comes to me, I've constantly had to be involved in discovery sessions, proposal creation, quote delivery, i- invoice, uh- Mm-hmm ... a- scheduling, you name it. The, the, the stickiest part of onboarding, and so we managed to create a platform that enables that flow. It automates it entirely, and I don't have to be a part of it.

All of the questions that, um, that are asked in a discovery session, we make sure that we have a, a way of extracting and extrapolating the pertinent details in order to put together proposals. And then once these proposals are accepted in principle, instead of a client prospect waiting for the next email- Mm-hmm

they immediately are presented [00:25:00] with the contract. So they don't have to wait for something that they don't know that they're waiting for, right? They're immediately told- Mm-hmm ... "Hey, here it is. You don't have to approve it now. It's in your inbox." Right. "But if you wanna approve it now, you can." And the beauty here is once they do, again, they're not waiting to receive that initial invoice.

They're presented it immediately and, you know, that previously meant at least a week- Mm-hmm ... before we received an initial invoice- Mm-hmm ... from the moment that someone began engaging with the process at its most expedient fashion, right? Sure. And now we've eliminated that week, week's worth of wait time.

Johnny Diggz: The, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm reminded of, uh, you know, patient portals, right? So- Yeah ... there's a, there's definitely a parallel here that, um, that- You know, w- when I log into my patient portal with my, with the [00:26:00] hospital- Yeah ... I can see upcoming appointments, I can see my billing, I can see, you know, any, uh, uh, old imaging, you know, all these...

And, and, and so when- And that's their digital hub ... that's their digital hub. Yeah. So, yeah, and I, and, you know, I had, had a, a to deal with a, a, a- But is it branded? Is it a branded experience or aren't you just using an EHR like Healow or something that, that- Exa- and sometimes, yeah. It, well, it depends on the, the, the vendor.

But the, yeah, I think that the, the one I'm thinking of in particular is, uh, one of those large e, you know- Yeah ... e-health platforms- Yeah ... that, you know, it says the brand of the hospital, but it's powered by, you know. Yeah. So. And so, you know, for, for larger entities sometimes it makes sense to have a third party deal with it so they don't have to.

They've got the budget to have, you know, people customize it for them however they want. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. [00:27:00] Right? These are the same pe- V- Listen, if you can afford to use Salesforce- Right ... then- You don't need this. No. Um, but if you are, you know, going, "I don't know if I wanna spend the money on HubSpot," or, "I don't know if I wanna spend- Right

Doug Berger: the money on, uh, on Zoho," the reality is a digital product can solve that problem for you. And while it can be a significant investment on the front end- Right ... uh, eh, on the back end you end up saving significantly. Talk to me, speaking of savings- No. Talk to me. Uh, one last, one last point. Okay. Um, because y- you said savings, you know, and but, b- let's, let's talk, let's talk brass tacks here.

Johnny Diggz: Um, with, with, you know, an agency like Remixed, how much is this, uh, digital hub gonna cost me in addition to my m- already expensive marketing agency fees? So it always depends on scope. Right. I, I [00:28:00] don't mean to take the political approach here- ... and avoid your question. Um- I'm not asking for dollars amount, I just wanna know, is this, is this in addition to my, you know- This isn't for a mom-and-pop type- Okay

Doug Berger: of outfit, right? Yeah. So this is for a company that averages somewhere between 20 and $40,000 a month on their marketing spend. And it, on, on kind of the low end. Sure. Right? Um, could you be spending a little bit less? Sure, but probably not. And, and so you're looking at that range. Um, you know, if you're bootstrapping and you're, you're concerned about revenue for the next month, th- This isn't-

this isn't for you. Right, right. It, and, and if you are a, a, uh, a, a nine-figure company, it could be for you, but this is [00:29:00] really more for your seven to eight-figure companies, I would say. Can I make it myself? Can I bootstrap this and, and glue it together? You can. But, you know- You get what you pay for. That's true.

Johnny Diggz: That's true. Well, I like to get what I pay for, for sure. And I think that's a good place to stop, because these podcasts are free.

Um, anything else you wanna add about digital, digital products, digital hubs? Nope, just like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Thank you guys for participating, and we'll see you next time. We might talk about the HBS again, or we'll have something else exciting for you. All right, have a good one

Doug Berger: Thank you for tuning in to Brand of Brothers. Big thank you to our presenting sponsor, Remix, the branding agency, along with production assistance from Johnny Digg, Simon Jacobson, and me, Doug Berger. We can't forget music by PRO. Speaking of not forgetting, remember to do that like and subscribe thing, and find us at brandshowlive.com and follow us on the socials [00:30:00] @brandshowlive.