What Is a Brand? And, Why It's More Than a Logo

[00:00:00] Doug Berger: Welcome to the latest in installment of Brand of Brothers. I'm Doug.

[00:00:02] Johnny Diggz: And I'm Johnny. Today we're talking about why your logo is not your brand.

[00:00:06] Doug Berger: All right, let's get to it.

[00:00:15] Johnny Diggz: So, Doug, today we're gonna talk about branding. What is a brand? What, what makes a brand a brand versus, uh, I don't know, what do you say? What is a brand?

[00:00:27] Doug Berger: What, what is a brand? A brand is a holistic approach to an identity. A lot of people mistake identity as being visual in nature. Uh, a akin to the, the phrase visual identity, which is generally synonymous with a logo, but it, it goes beyond that, right?

[00:00:48] Doug Berger: Because it has type and color, et cetera. What is a brand? A brand is a, a multitude of things that must begin with identifying who you are, what you do. Why you do it and the list goes on, we, we have a brand story which usually answers the who you are, why do you do it, and for whom do you do it right? Um, then we go out.

[00:01:16] Doug Berger: Broader from that, what's your vision? What's your ultimate goal in the realm of your particular brand? Then how do you get there? That's your v that's your mission statement, right? Your ultimate goal is your vision, your how do you get there? Is the, the mission, and you look like you have something that you want to say.

[00:01:35] Johnny Diggz: Well,

[00:01:35] Johnny Diggz: I'm just, you know, you, you, you, you've, you're talking about vision and mission, but, um, but I think from, you know, a business owner's perspective, I have. I have a company, I make widgets. And the name of my You do have a company that makes widgets? I do. I do. Yeah. Um, and, but, and the name of my company is Johnny Diggs is Widget Express.

[00:01:58] Doug Berger: Oh, you changed the name of your company? Yes,

[00:02:01] Johnny Diggz: I rebranded. Um, now you just listed, uh, mission and vision and stuff like that and a brand story you mentioned. Yeah. Um, but how do you get from. Johnny Diggs Witches. Wi Witches. I think Johnny Diggs witches is better than widgets.

[00:02:20] Johnny Diggz: I think it'll sell. Yeah.

[00:02:22] Johnny Diggz: Um, so how do we, how do you get from that, that name even.

[00:02:26] Johnny Diggz: Uh, is the name your brand, like, is that

[00:02:29] Doug Berger: It's part of it, right?

[00:02:30] Doug Berger: Yeah. So it, it also depends on, on what story your name tells, right? In your instance with, with Johnny Diggs as witches, you've told the story, right? Except people then have to ask the question, which witch are we talking about? And, and how do I get my hands on these witches?

[00:02:51] Doug Berger: Um, and, and also. Are they allowed to? Um, so sorry, I, this, this totally veered way off course. So, uh, how do you come up with a name? There are are numerous ways, right? From a, a, a, a heartfelt. Place where it's, uh, it's embedding your mission into your name or it's from a utilitarian place, like naming it after yourself and specifically what it is that you're selling.

[00:03:24] Doug Berger: But there field,

[00:03:25] Johnny Diggz: uh, two guys in a truck, right? So

[00:03:28] Doug Berger: that's a brand, but it, it's a, it's a brand name. Okay. Um, it's not a brand except they generally tell you what. They do in the name. Yeah. Right. It's a utilitarian name. Okay. For sure. Because it's telling you what you're getting by hiring them. Right. Um, and, and it certainly begins to tell the story of what you're getting.

[00:03:49] Doug Berger: Right. Two guys in a truck sounds like a moving company. And that's what I believe it is. Um, but then there are instances where it's called Chipotle, right? Right. And Chipotle, the only reason why Americans. Get an idea of what that is, is because of the marketing that's happened with that brand. But outside of that, especially when they came around the, the flavoring of Chipotle pepper was not.

[00:04:18] Doug Berger: Within the American lexicon, right? This is a name that went through numerous permutations. It undoubtedly had numerous focus groups, right? It was spearheaded by a large corporation, and so that's how we ended up with Chipotle.

[00:04:34] Johnny Diggz: Does, um. I guess, you know, the same could be said for Nike, right? So Nike, that's, I don't even know if that was a word or before, but,

[00:04:43] Doug Berger: well, it's certainly a, a God, right?

[00:04:45] Doug Berger: Is it? Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So I, and, and so the, uh, I don't know what it's a God of, but I remember something about a winged foot or something to that effect. Sounds plausible. And, and I believe that's where the swoosh idea came from. Um, which that's an even more amazing story, uh, about how the swoosh came to be and, and ultimately how the designer who created it was ultimately compensated.

[00:05:11] Doug Berger: Because initially it was just a, a, a, a small payment that she received in exchange for doing it.

[00:05:19] Johnny Diggz: So, but what you're saying is. Nike's brand isn't the name and it's not the swoosh.

[00:05:27] Doug Berger: So it's all of it, right? It is the story of where it is today and where it came from, and it, so that makes the brand story, the, yeah, it, there are all of these components, right?

[00:05:41] Doug Berger: The logo is part of the brand. It's in, it's part of that toolbox, right? And so the tagline that's on the outside of the toolbox might be a sticker that says, just do it. Right. Um, and then inside that, that toolbox, you also have an instruction manual. That instruction manual is. Ostensibly your, your messaging brands scape, as we call it, right?

[00:06:05] Doug Berger: Your messaging brands scape. What's that? That's your vision, your mission, your position, your tone, your core values, your brand story, the who you are, the what you do, the why you do it, and for whom you do it. All of those particular details. And speaking of who you do it, who for whom you do it, you, um, you also have your target audiences, and then we have all of our messaging.

[00:06:26] Doug Berger: We have our. Our broad messaging, and we have our vertical messaging. And our vertical messaging is to speak to the services and solutions we provide, and on a targeted level to each of those, uh, those audience segments.

[00:06:41] Johnny Diggz: So you can see. Why it would be important to sort of identify those ahead of time.

[00:06:47] Johnny Diggz: Because if you're gonna spend money marketing, you gotta kind of know, you know, I think, yeah,

[00:06:52] Doug Berger: it's the why, why are you marketing, why are you spending that money? Right.

[00:06:55] Johnny Diggz: Right. Yeah. I mean, like the idea of putting a billboard up by the side of the road. Um, might get attention, but what kind of attention are you trying to get?

[00:07:06] Johnny Diggz: You know, are you, are you looking for people who are driving by?

[00:07:10] Doug Berger: It sounds like you're talking about another episode where we maybe get into marketing funnels, but, but it in, in that instance, right? Because it a, a billboard is. I generally refer to them as a vanity project because it's part of an awareness campaign, right?

[00:07:28] Doug Berger: It, it, it can be peripherally, part of a conversion campaign, but who is gonna be driving by a 45 miles per hour taking a picture of a QR code?

[00:07:38] Johnny Diggz: But yeah, that's true. Um, I, every time I see a QR code on one of those, i, I, I wonder, but the um. But I'm talking more in the, in the terms of a brand. I mean, when I, when I drive around anybody in this day and age, you see tons of brands and one of the places you see in them is on a billboard.

[00:07:55] Johnny Diggz: You see? Sure. You know John Morgan, one of the huge brand, right? Um, absolutely probably the largest lawyer brand in the world. He is a

[00:08:02] Doug Berger: large lawyer.

[00:08:03] Johnny Diggz: He's a large lawyer. Um, but, uh, and he has, and, and so, you know, there's a, there's a logo for Morgan and Morgan, but almost in my mind. He is the brand for Morgan and Morgan.

[00:08:17] Johnny Diggz: He can, can the person be the brand?

[00:08:19] Doug Berger: A, a a A person can definitely be a big part of the brand. Can they be the brand? It really depends on, on how it's presented. Um, for the most part, he is definitely the brand. Uh, which I find kind of ironic considering the fact that he can't even practice law. But it doesn't change the fact that, you know, there's the.

[00:08:39] Doug Berger: And Morgan side of that, which is his wife, who, who is also an attorney, and then his children. He has a, a, a few children that work at the firm if I, I assume they're partners, um, who are also by the last name. Morgan. Morgan. So it's, uh, Morgan and Morgan. And Morgan and Morgan. Um, and, uh, but from a, from a. A personal brand that transcends into the actual professional brand, of course.

[00:09:06] Doug Berger: That that can definitely be a thing.

[00:09:07] Johnny Diggz: While we're touching on there, um, you know, there's, there's uh, I guess some potential pitfalls about tying a personality or a person to the brand if that person becomes. Toxic in any way. It can have adverse effects on the brand. For example, what's happening right now with Tesla and Elon Musk

[00:09:27] Doug Berger: or, or what happened with, uh, Papa John's?

[00:09:30] Doug Berger: Right. So you, you have people who have made polarizing remarks and as a result there are individuals who basically use their personal philosophies to drive how they, how they consume. Right. And so when you're talking about Tesla. There is a whole segment of society that is saying, no, I'm not going to support this brand, despite the fact that it generally is a net positive for society, but because of the perceived toxicity that he puts out there.

[00:10:08] Doug Berger: Nobody wants to put money in his pockets that make it possible for him to evangelize his idea, his ideologies. It's,

[00:10:16] Johnny Diggz: it's gotten to the, the further to the point with his ex, uh, product, um, which oh man used to be Twitter. He's actually actively suing other brands who are Oh, that's right. Who aren't advertising because they don't want their brand associated with the stuff that's being.

[00:10:35] Johnny Diggz: Published on his platform?

[00:10:37] Doug Berger: Well, I mean, can you, could you imagine being Coca-Cola and having grok say that, you know, something that is Nazi related, uh, that is, is a alongside Coke? Yeah. Why would they take that risk? No, not, yeah, it, it's a terrible idea for a brand to engage in something that could be potentially toxic, especially on a global scale, right?

[00:11:01] Doug Berger: We're talking about something that is megalithic, and so megalithic brands don't even want to touch it. And then when you're looking at smaller brands, it, it. When you're talking about small businesses specifically, it becomes cost prohibitive and then begs the question, why would I spend a few thousand dollars a month that might be close to 10% of my my net?

[00:11:26] Doug Berger: Why would I risk that alongside a toxic brand?

[00:11:30] Johnny Diggz: The, um, you, you mentioned earlier, uh, you threw out the messaging brands scape, uh, term. Yeah. Um, can talk about, uh, what. You know, you mentioned the, the things that are in a messaging BrainScape. Walk me through the steps of what you do with a client to help develop that.

[00:11:50] Johnny Diggz: I imagine that's one of the first things that you do.

[00:11:52] Doug Berger: Uh, yeah, it is actually. Um, so we conduct. It and what I like to call an abridged brand audit because a comprehensive brand audit means di doing deep dive into research, right? Competitive research and, and deep dive into what your employees say about you, what is said about you on social media and so on.

[00:12:12] Doug Berger: Um, so I'm not gonna dig into to that aspect of the brand audit. So on the abridge side, what we wanna do is we wanna understand who you believe your audiences are. So we can figure out whether that's even in parity with what data tells us. We will also want to make sure that, uh, we understand what qualities you're trying to convey.

[00:12:38] Doug Berger: Um, it just a series of adjectives, right? Are you professional? Are you amiable, are you approachable? Um, it. What, what values are important to you, right? Trust, transparency, integrity. Exactly right. Um, and, and the list goes on. Uh, so then there are other components that we wanna understand. Uh, how often do you pay attention to metrics, right?

[00:13:02] Doug Berger: How often do you build your marketing strategy around what your competition is doing? How often, uh, do you receive feedback? What does your feedback loop look like? Right? So we go through this, this. Process of discovery. Then we take that information along with internal research that we do. And that research might be, uh, looking at what, uh, what articles were and data we're finding on Statista to, uh, conducting our own, uh, focus groups, formal focus groups based on, uh, information that we've been able to derive, right?

[00:13:40] Doug Berger: So we want to know who the target audiences are. We want to know who the target audiences are based on geography, and then expand from there. That, that gives us a general idea of where we're starting. What is it that the customer, the client is wanting to accomplish and who is their customer? Right? And how do you connect the two?

[00:14:01] Doug Berger: And that's really the whole point of this, um, messaging BrainScape, is that it creates that bridge between the customer and the client.

[00:14:12] Johnny Diggz: And from that, then you, um. You, you developed the, the visual components then.

[00:14:22] Doug Berger: So you, you fast forwarded, uh, pretty quickly. So, uh, once we have put together the messaging BrainScape, then we, we don't move on to the visuals just yet, uh, because we need to know what the marketing strategy is.

[00:14:38] Doug Berger: We need to understand what it is that we're attempting to accomplish because we need to know where the audiences are and how to reach them. Um. Yes, a visual identity is going to be important, but if that visual identity is only on social media, then that's gonna have a different aesthetic than if it's going to be a far reaching brand identity that's gonna be, uh, something that might not just be in your pocket.

[00:15:01] Johnny Diggz: What do you say to someone that comes to remixed and say, I, you know, I just need a website. Or I just, you know, or I already have a logo and I just need help with my social media. Like what do you, how do you respond, given everything you've told me about brands? How do you respond to that?

[00:15:17] Doug Berger: Well, we begin by assembling all of the materials that they already have, right?

[00:15:22] Doug Berger: So it is, again, back to this brand, this informal brand audit. So we need to understand what assets they have and what assets are missing. So if they already have messaging, there's no need. To rebuild from the ground up. So, you know, there are plenty of established companies that come to us and require our assistance.

[00:15:44] Doug Berger: Um, are we going to make them start from, from, uh, from zero? No, absolutely not. Um, but if we find along the way that there are, are opportunities, right? So there are gonna be strengths, there are gonna be weaknesses, there are gonna be opportunities, and there are going to be threats. Um, these are are continuous.

[00:16:03] Doug Berger: Pieces that are evaluated and when. Their messaging seems weak, then we would present the opportunities for improvement. And the same is true for their visual language. And the whole point though, there needs to be a reason, a justification behind changing a logo, for example. Why are we changing it? Are we repositioning the brand?

[00:16:26] Doug Berger: Has our message changed? Have our audiences changed? What exactly has. Has catalyzed this to occur.

[00:16:33] Johnny Diggz: Uh, you know, I, I just recently was watching, uh, Jaguar came out with a big rebrand, uh, recently, and there was a lot of controversy over why they did what they did. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's, and I guessed correctly for the record.

[00:16:50] Johnny Diggz: Yeah. Um, we'll talk about what they did, so. Basically what they, they did. It was, it was Jaguar's a is a is a Epic brand, right? Yes. It, it

[00:17:01] Doug Berger: was a Facily Aly Facily. It, it was a, a fascinating case study on exactly what not to do when it comes to a, a branding campaign. Um. It. It was a tremendous success in that it got a lot of people talking, but it was an even more epic failure in that we found that the data simply did not back up the decision, and that's what makes these kind of undertakings questionable.

[00:17:40] Doug Berger: In this instance, there was no question in my mind that this was them. Unveiling their electric and hybrid vehicles, right? They know that they have a classic vehicle with a very specific audience, and that that audience is going to age out for them and that the up and coming. Audiences for them, their target audiences, their, their consumers, for them,

[00:18:08] Johnny Diggz: their brands came, said to them, well,

[00:18:11] Doug Berger: I mean basically they had these old English vehicles and people liked them for being a classic car, right?

[00:18:17] Doug Berger: Right. But people are gradually moving away from fossil fuels toward renewables, and as a result, Jaguar felt it imperative to pivot. The problem is sometimes when you pivot. It's too fast and it's too hard. And if you pivot too, too quickly, you're gonna drop the couch.

[00:18:40] Johnny Diggz: The, uh, yeah, there is definitely some couch dropping, I believe.

[00:18:45] Johnny Diggz: Um, because there, the backlash over that, that, uh, Jaguar campaign, although I, I agree with you, the, the. From all, all the look of all the new vehicles, they're moving away from that classic look. They're moving, they've moved away from the classic logo. Um, so you know, the, all the new colors are sort of bright and, and, uh, uh, interesting, interesting maneuver.

[00:19:10] Johnny Diggz: So as we wrap up here talking about, um, the difference between brands and. Logos. Um, but obviously they're interconnected. What, what would you say to someone who is looking to maybe give their brand a a, a new look, a new refresh? Like how would you, how would you suggest they go about it?

[00:19:33] Doug Berger: The first thing that I would recommend is that they call me.

[00:19:36] Doug Berger: No. Um, the, the first thing that I would recommend is that they come up with. Qualitative and quantitative reasons for the decision, right, that it shouldn't just be for the sake of making a change. But

[00:19:53] Johnny Diggz: it seems like sometimes that, that brands just do that and they, you see that like, you know, if you look at the history of like, all of, all of the logos for, uh, VW over the years, even Coca-Cola.

[00:20:05] Johnny Diggz: Yeah. I

[00:20:06] Doug Berger: mean, it, they, even these, the like subtle FedEx, nuance, FedEx changed G Yeah. They, they've all, it, they've all evolved over time. Part of it is to keep the brand relevant. Right. Yeah. Um, the other parts are because there is a, a real purpose, right? When you feel like something needs to change. Chances are good, something needs to change and you just haven't figured out why.

[00:20:31] Doug Berger: Right? And so when you engage with a third party, um, that, that can become more and more pronounced and more and more obvious. And when you say third party, you mean like an agency? Like an agency? Yeah. Or, or a brand consultant or a marketing consultant. And you ever

[00:20:48] Johnny Diggz: come across when, you know, a new, uh, marketing executive, a new CMO comes in and they just wanna make it their own right.

[00:20:55] Doug Berger: Yeah, that definitely happens and I've definitely experienced it where it, it made no na no sense to anybody, um, except for themselves. And, and, and generally hubris and ego shouldn't be the driving factor behind. Right. But many times it seems a brand position. Yeah, for sure. I've definitely, definitely witnessed that.

[00:21:14] Doug Berger: Um, but there, there should be a justification and, and. That justification often comes about from either reassessing or reaffirming your messaging brands scape and that messaging brands scape again, is, is your vision still aligned with what the long-term ideal is for the brand? It, and then is your mission, your way of getting there, is that actually in lock step with how you need to be and how you need to perform in order to get to that ideal place?

[00:21:47] Doug Berger: Then you have all the other pieces that fall underneath that, right? So answering your brand story, the who, the why, the what, the, when, all of that good stuff. Um, the how, uh, and, and any other questions you'd like to ask. Um, but so yeah, it, I, I feel like when it comes to making a, a brand adjustment or brand repositioning, that it's just important to be introspective and, and figure out why are you doing this?

[00:22:15] Doug Berger: And then. How should you do that? Right? What, what makes the most amount of sense?

[00:22:20] Johnny Diggz: Stop. Stop. Uh,

[00:22:22] Doug Berger: I'm, I stopped

[00:22:25] Johnny Diggz: now. I was saying like, you know, I, we, we, it seems like we see a lot of these, uh, brands. I, I'm, for some reason I'm thinking of Airbnb, but, um, other ones that, um, seem to come out with a new logo that.

[00:22:40] Johnny Diggz: Um, wasn't necessarily, isn't necessarily that significant change. It doesn't seem like, like that. It's just like, oh, it's a new font, or it's, you know, they have,

[00:22:50] Doug Berger: but it, the thing is that there is purpose behind it. We just might not see it. We just might. Turn our nose up at it because it, it, it feels inel, right?

[00:23:02] Doug Berger: We've seen this happen a lot, especially with luxury brands. Um, we call it rebranding. Um, where, where they've gone from having these beautiful. Uh, serif type faces or these beautiful script faces that were originally hand done and then it's simply been replaced with Helvetica. And Helvetica is an amazing typeface, but is it the right typeface?

[00:23:30] Doug Berger: Not for everyone.

[00:23:31] Johnny Diggz: That's a good, good place to end this because we all know that Helvetica is not for everyone.

 

[00:23:37] Doug Berger: Thank you for tuning in to Brand of Brothers. Big thank you to our presenting sponsor, Remixed, the branding agency, along with production assistance from Johnny Diggz, Simon Jacobsohn, and me, Doug Berger. We can't forget music by PRO. Speaking of not forgetting, remember to do that like and subscribe thing and find us at BrandShowLive.

[00:23:51] Doug Berger: com and follow us on the socials at BrandShowLive.